In line with the above comment, a ventless (a.k.a. "condensing") dryer will throw off more than a little heat. IME that is the penalty for the huge benefit of having the flexibility to locate the dryer in convenient locations that otherwise not be possible due to the need for an exhaust duct. The usefulness of having a washer and dryer in a master bedroom closet is huge (huge is understating it), you get to do laundey at the exact spot where you dress, undress and store your clothes. How could the unavoidable chore of laundry be more easy and convenient? The manufacturers who put out smaller, condensing dryers had this very usage in mind, flexibility in placement, yet they don't really market or advertise that feature much.

Getting back to the heat given off, if you live in a cold or a four season climate, during the heating season the heat given off by the dryer is a net positive, it displaces some of the work a heating system would do, so a slight reduced in heating costs. During AC season the opposite is true, you pay, in the form of higher AC usage, to remove the heat given off by the dryer. You can do some small things to counter act the additional heat, examples: If you have forced air HVAC put in a return duct near the dryer, or simply open a window, and/or put an exhaust fan in the window. Or use a small oscillating fan to disperse the heat.

Add my vote for the Miele ventless dryer.

future_retiree, a vented dryer sucks conditioned air out of the house during heating and cooling seasons, and outside air gets drawn in to replace it. You don't feel it in one place like you'd feel the heat from a ventless dryer, but nevertheless there is a cost.

suburbanmd, understood. However the amount of makeup air pulled into a house is minimal for almost all vented dryers. On the same order of magnitude as a bathroom exhaust fan.

The difference in vented vs. ventless is the heat that would be expelled via the vented ductwork is instead exhausted into the house in a ventless situation. I saw the numbers once (overall averaged), for ventless several orders of magnitude more heat remains inside vs. vented.

Humidity matters also. Let's see how much moisture might come into the house with the dryer makeup air.

Take a summer day in the eastern US, with dew point of 70F, or 21C. Moisture content of outside air is 18.2 grams/cubic meter. Said outside air comes in the house at 100 cubic feet/minute, or 2.8 cubic meters/minute, carrying (18.2 x 2.8) = 51 grams of moisture per minute. In an hour, that's around 3000 grams of moisture, or a liquid equivalent of around 100 fluid ounces, weighing 6.5 pounds. Heat of vaporization of water is 970 BTU/lb., so total heat of vaporization is 6300 BTU's. That's a latent heat load of 6300 BTU/hr. (over half a ton) on your air conditioner, just to remove the added moisture from outside.

I think condenserdryers are very good. Have used some different brands but Miele is the best. Mines 9 years old now, no repairs. I also got a US size Bosch dryer and good for smaller sized laundry items, not sheets or smae size items, broke after 5 years.

My next one whem time comes will be a heatpump dryer. I also heat my house and hot water with a ground source heatpump.

A heatpump dryer does not expell much hot air as the condenser counterpart.

We live in Nevada in a dry high-desert climate but we will be living up in the mountains. My laundry room is also our mud room with direct access to the garage. So, while there are no windows in the laundry room, I'm wondering if the heat from the dryer might actually be a good thing during all but the hottest Summer days.

yadax...Your setup sounds JUST like mine. We enter from the garage, directly into a small laundry room (we have a fridge/freezer there and a small rack to hang jackets and 3 rows of shoe racks). I do have an amazing DEEP sink, with built in enamel washboard into the sink. So great!!!

My Laundry room has NO windows, but we did install an exhaust fan, the vents to the outside. We put a timer on it. I set it for 30-60 mins when running our ventless dryer, and this does seem to help some!

Even though there is a considerable amt. of heat generated and put into our laundry room, if buying a new dryer tomorrow, I would go ventless again!!

Are we talking only electric dryers, or is natural gas an option?

I have natural gas which is i think is much cheaper than anything using electricity to produce heat. If you have the option if using natural gas I think you will have cheaper costs, and still get faster dry times. Non of my full loads take more than 40 minutes and I am talking towels.

They make natural gas or propane Condenser/heat pump ventless dryers???

I will NEVER have gas dryers again. I have been electric for almost 20 years. I find them much quieter, more even heat, not as scorching hot, safer (flames and lint/clothing make me nervous)

It's too late for me to convert from electric anyway. I agree - propane dryer would make me nervous.

It just dawned on me...you know when you see that burnt spot on the grill in back of any dryer, is that from gas getting too hot or do electrics do it also? Mine have always been electric and never have that burnt spot. I also don't use hot.

All gas appliances must be vented to the outside. Carbon Monoxide is produced when gas is burned. In most if not all states building code and fire departments require a vent for gas appliances. In NYC you can have a gas stove only if it has a vent or an operable window in the room and that code is way below most.

Just trust me on this one... you don't want a ventless dryer unless you have to have a ventless dryer. They are extremely common in NY and are nothing short of god-awful, in my experience. Maybe they would be much better in a typical, 3100 Sq Feet Cookie Cutter McMansion.... but in small spaces, they make the entire area very, very hot, and humid... and I always wondered if they could cause mold damage. Not only that... but the drying isn't great, they can bake in wrinkles, and they just take forever. I've also noticed with some... the clothes kinda have a "burned" smell to them. Although... this might be countered by using a strongly scented detergent + fabric softener.

The typical person who purchases a Condensor Dryer is someone who has no damn choice between a Regular Dryer. Just please trust me on this one, You want a regular dryer if you can have a real dryer.

Gas Dryers aren't great either. Like Larsi said... flames & cotton probably aren't a good idea. But from what I've seen... whites, in particular, tend to yellow over time (from the gasoline) and a lot of things... just have an odor that's not great to them. I've also noticed from a few friends places, that... the interior drum of gas dryers sometimes has a yellowish tint. I wouldn't want my clothes having that.

Like I said.... I'd stick with an American Style Dryer until they take them away ;) I'd literally kill for one right now.....

Laundry Mitch : I do not know were to begine with what you have said. Nothing of what you said is true, maybe it is for yiu and the dryer you have. I have had Miele dryers for 15 years, before that Asko, Electrolux, Aeg, Bosch and non of them had those problems you descibe. I agre with that the room will get warmer but no moister will escape. I do know from reading test done that different dryers are better at condensate the water so there are differences. I more or less only use powder detergents and my clothea are fine.

Please tell us what brand of dryer you had so much trouble with.

I agree with linus2003, one of what sounds like a very bad installation should not be extrapolated to apply to every house and every home in the rest of the world.

The convenience of having a washer and dryer in the same room or closet where you change clothes and store your clothes is great beyond expectations.

My gas Miele dryer does not burn anything and infact replaces high heat with forceful air so I don't think all gas dryers scorch the devil out of clothes. That said I am not sure about using propane in a dryer. I am sure Miele ventless dryers perform better than most but everything Miele in the USA comes with the price.

@Laundry Mitch...I do have to respectfully disagree with you and agree with Linus & future retiree!! I do agree with you Mitch, that flames and fabrics are a scary combo :-O

My Miele Little Giant condenser dryer might be the best dryer I have ever used!!! YES, it makes the laundry room warm (quite warm at times), but it never, never makes the room moist! Moisture is collected inside the machine and it is automatically drained into the wall drain pipe!

Clothes are fluffy, wrinkle free and soft. Now, since most condenser dryers are much smaller than most typical vented, American dryers...I can see how clothes could be balled up and wrinkled if your condenser dryer does not reverse tumble. I could never have a smaller, condenser dryer w/o reverse tumble.

If I had to buy a dryer tomorrow, I would almost certainly go with a ventless. BUT...if Miele still made a BIG vented, electric dryer....I would for sure consider this as well. I have nothing against vented, as they have their benefits too!!

"... condenser dryer ... YES, it makes the laundry room warm (quite warm at times), but it never, never makes the room moist!"

Thought about this point after making the last post. Yes, this is exactly what ventless dryers are supposed to, remove all the moisture and exhaust clear dry but heated air into the living space. I'm wondering is Laundry Mitch's dryer is malfunctioning, or if things need to be cleaned (i.e., a condenser or some coils).

If you're building a house everything is built to your needs and wants, but don't forget about the eventual resell. You're going to be knocked (in one form or another) for not having a dryer vent in the laundry space.

Most American full sized dryers exhaust approx. 150 to 200 CFM. That is quite a bit of air for a 60 min drying cycle.

MRB

Cedric, if you sold a house with this non-vented dryer in it

https://www.whirlpool.com/laundry/dryers/electric/p.WED99HEDW.html

do you think most people would notice or care, as long as it worked? Every so often I'm tempted to buy one of these, and then seal up my dryer vent for good.

I have the Miele T8023C condenser dryer, and I can't say that I love it. It gets the job done, but every time I stay at an airbnb with a vented dryer I'm amazed at how much faster the drying cycle is, how fluffy and soft and crease-free the clothes and towels are (this could also be due to a larger drum capacity of course) and the fact that the clothes are actually fully dry at the end of a cycle and can be folded right from the dryer. With mine there will always be some parts of fabric that don't get fully dry, so I'll either hang dry afterwards or run a 20 minute cycle to help ensure that everything is no longer damp. On top of it all it's only 2.5 years old, but has recently started giving me the Filter/Vent error with every. single. load. so now I'm waiting for a service tech to come out - good thing I purchased the extended warranty! Kind of a bummer since I had owned much less expensive condenser dryers when I lived in Europe and never had any kind of issues with those.

There is however absolutely no humidity from its operation - ours is in a small bathroom closet, and the room has no windows, so we would have been in serious trouble if that were the case.

So if we had the space I would likely pair the washer (which I love dearly) with a larger vented dryer to get the best of both worlds. Unfortunately we must stack, so hoping the dryer can get fixed and the issues won't recur.

mrb, I calculated above based on 100 CFM. If my calculations make sense, then at 200 CFM the humidity from makeup air at 70F dew point will use up over 1 ton of air conditioning capacity. That's a lot, especially in a house with a 2 or 3 ton A/C.

@ recordaras...My vented Little Giant Miele dryer used to throw the check vent/Filter error after EVERY load. Miele Tech spent hours and hundreds of dollars...and it only stayed off for a day!

If you Google this problem, you will find an Australian Forum, and there seems to be hundreds of people complaining about this issue.

I hope they can fix yours! Mine seemed not repairable. Strange. Knock on wood...Little Giant condenser is flawless!!

Ugh, I'm hoping it will be something they can fix... Fortunately I have an extended warranty, so at least there's that. They actually responded to my service request with an email to call them and see if they can troubleshoot the issue over the phone, but not holding my breath on that one of course. I have read those forum threads, they mostly seemed to be about the vented models I believe, so that's giving me a bit of hope.

The other odd thing is that when I started having the Filter/Vent issue every now and then the dryer would shut down and give an audible warning buzz. Now it just silently quits the cycle - I'll be in the other room thinking that it's almost over, only to find that it had stopped 15 minutes in and now I have to restart the whole thing - really throws off any kind of timing planning.

@larsi_gw & everyone else. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe these dryers don't put off any humidity. But... I swear if I didn't know any better... the two I've seen in Bathrooms make the room "feel" very moist... and hot.

Those two were made by ASKO & Bosch. I know for fact if you open one mid-cycle, you can feel some humid air escape!!!

The biggest difference is, where I am... the average apartment isn't bigger than 600 Sq Feet. So... if someone has one of these dryers, there are not many places you can stash it away... and during the hot summer, it's just absolutely hell in a handbasket.

Even for a friend of mine who has a 3 Bedroom... the condenser dryer makes the place very uncomfortable. And in that situation... there's plenty of room & air conditioning to cover up the madness.

I just don't care for them. A Vented Dryer does the job so well, and thoroughly... and in less time, and doesn't bake in wrinkles. Most of the people who have Condensers only get them because they have to, and I'll leave it at that.

@Laundry Mitch...you are right about VERY small apartments and condenser dryers.

They do not, and should not put out any moisture (if you open a vented dryer, you will feel hot, moist air escape as well....you have hot & moist clothes in the drum ;)...but they can easily raise temp in the room 10-20 degrees! So if you have a small apartment, or especially a stuido apt., a condenser dryer will add heat, this is for sure!!

Sorry, I forgot to add this for the original poster:

Installing a vent for a dryer in a place that does not have one but has an exterior wall is not hard or expensive. As a matter of fact, it was pretty easy to do when I decided I *also* wanted a regular set in my home which did not have a vent. As an alternative, you can have the vent put in right now as you build the home and cap if from inside. It will be basically the same as if you did not have a vent until you (or a future buyer) decides to get a regular vented dryer.

Good luck with the new home!

Pcpr_gw : thank you for saying the things that I have been thinking of for a long time.

I live in Sweden Europe and we only, mostly have what you call compact washer and dryers like the Bosch ones you got. They are great.

I also awn a pair of american sized washer and dryer from Bosch and even though the washer washes clean it takes for ever due to cold fill only and 1000 watt heater and dryer can not handle sheets or big things just ball up. The dryer has a heater of 3000 watts and a full washload of towles over 20 poumds take around 2 hours in the dryer and 5 hours in washer puh .

We are liveing so different lives Europe and US and we all need to do laundry but US have been spoilt by fast wash and dry times but the loadsizes are not bigger than any European washer can not handle.

Thank you for telling the truth. We do not want to hurt anybody but we do need to set the record strait

"" To begin with, no, they are not extremely common in NYC. In NYC, it's extremely common to have to go to the laundromats, next it's very common to have to use your building coin-operated machines (usually in the basement), and then, for the lucky few that *can* have equipment in their own apartments, they are often vented dryers connected to some form of inadequately maintained common vent. Only in the last 20-ish years or so people have been even *able* to buy Euro-style condensing dryers by going to a store and getting them, before then you needed to know someone who could import you one at an exorbitant price or bring one when you moved from Europe. ""

You know... I'm not quite sure where you lived in NY, nor do I really care. I live in Hell's Kitchen, and have friends all throughout the city (Upper East Side, Chelsea, TriBeCa, FiDi and others).

I can tell you first hand... that almost every single one them lives in an Apartment with a Washer & Dryer included in the Unit. And for those who don't (including me)... we generally hire a service like Cleanly or FlyCleaners to take care of our garments & laundering for us. Most of us live such busy lives that we certainly don't have the time to simply bother with Laundromats or "Basement Laundry".

As for your comment about Venting Conditions. My thought on this was... maybe there is a difference between the buildings I've encountered, and yours. My friends and I generally live in newer, modern buildings. While the Buildings, you may have encountered twenty-years ago may have consisted of older pre-war styles. The newer ones generally don't have space for Dryer Vents, so.. there's been a strong "move" towards Condenser Units.

Honestly... I'm very taken back by your entire post. It was very ignorant, and displayed very poor judgement in my opinion. I certainly would hope that our group has the ability to show more class and dignity.

I think all of us have different opinions and experiences with vented and/or ventless dryers. Some feathers were for sure ruffled on this thread, but with this Forum and ALL online Forums..this happens and will continue to happen!

What I love about our Houzz Family Laundry Room is that we are all friends, adults and we care about each other.

This riff will pass, and we will get back to laundry soon and recommending and buying detergents and softeners that NONE of us need. LOL :)

Ventless dryer keeps your neighbors from enjoying your latest detergent and softener scent.

Condenser dryers aren't completely sealed - although some better than others.

It's a shame that a lot of accurate and interesting information refuting the above post, that is at best acedotal information and frankly contradicts mine, and it seems, several others, has been redacted. Laundry Mitch, I found your tone offensive and patronising. We all need to respect that everyone has different experiences, that may not align with ours. That's what makes this forum so great! There are many, many people with lots to offer and lots to learn from our diverse backgrounds.

Now, my experience with dryers: In the last 25 yrs, I've owned 4 vented dryers, 2 gas and 2 electric, plus now the Miele condenser. I have to say that of the vented I've owned, I prefer gas. Modern gas dryers don't perform the way they did of yesteryear. I've never experienced yellowing or off odours. Shrinkage across all dryers never seemed to be because the gas was too hot. In fact, my worst experience was the early 90's electric KM- that dryer shrunk everything. Vented dryers, are also dependent on your vent system, ours was quite long. It affected drying times and quality. That and if you don't do that maintenance, it's a fire hazard.

I've had the condenser dryer about a year. Love, love, love! Yes, it takes about 25% longer and yes, there's extra heat exhausted- dry not humid. But, I get dry clothes when I use the "Delicate" cycle, not overdry, but perfectly dry. My past experience has been either wet or shrunk. Wrinkling is an issue with any dryer. I've learned that each dryer has its own idiosyncrasies that need to be worked around, condenser is no different. Though, through advise of some great people on this forum and trial and error. I have way less wrinkling and balling than with previous machines.

I didn't have many choices when purchasing my machines, as I need stacked in a small closet. I wasn't convinced I would want a condenser dryer. I'm now a convert. I would buy again in a minute.

Todd: yes! that is exactly what I like about my Bosch condenser dryer, I can safely dry wool and silk (or any other delicates) and not worry about it.

As for the posts -- I did not delete them, as a matter of fact, I can still see them, and so does the person who answered my tech support email.

Maybe someone flagged them as offensive or something and they have not decided one way or another yet. The tech support person suggested "refreshing the cache", LOL. Not my first rodeo with browsers, already did that.

I will write to them again and inquire further.

"However, I'm weighing whether the extra energy efficiency and not having to install a vent in the walls of my new house makes sense." - This might be of some minor interest.

hmorton - "All gas appliances must be vented to the outside."

If that is it, I hope they decide to post. There's lots of useful information contained in the posts.

I haven't tried to dry wool in a dryer ever. It's good to know you've been able to. Not sure I have the guts to try it though, lol.

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread - it has been an education for me. Now that I've decided to go with a Miele condenser dryer, I'm wondering if I need to install a vent in my windowless laundry room to help dissipate the heat from the dryer and, if so, the type and location of the vent.

My laundry room measures 87" by 163" with a door at each end - one leading to the garage and the other leading to a hallway. My washer/dryer will be located in the center of the long wall, which is shared with the garage. Any advice is appreciated.

I don't know the exact dimensions of my master bathroom but it is certainly smaller than those of your planned laundry room. I sometimes run the exhaust fan when the C dryer is running -- other times not. I'm not sure it makes a huge difference anyway. Since you have a dedicated laundry room, I'd say you will be fine without a fan. The temperature is, in my opinion, a bigger concern if it's a shared-purpose room (a kitchen, for example).

That said, the idea proposed by others to run an exhaust vent and cap it off -- just in case -- is not a bad one, if in your budget. Much easier to do now than later.

There is a learning curve switching to a C dryer, but I'm fairly confident you will be happy in the long run. We look forward to you coming back and asking questions once installed. Enjoy your Miele.

My builder already ran the vent under and out the side of the house but hasn't installed siding on the exterior or anything on the interior yet. Are you suggesting he complete the interior/exterior installation and then cap it at both ends? Or just leave it "as is" to hook up later if needed?

I say, "Complete the installation, then cap off both ends or at least the end inside the laundry room."

MRB

Sorry. This thread is so long and full of other nonsense that I had missed that part. No. I'd say as long as you know where the entry/exit points are under the siding and drywall, there's no point completing the work only to then cap it. Just knowing it's there (and where) is good enough, I think! Shoving some insulation into each (easily visible) might not be a terrible idea.

I, too, suggest as Alex has stated above. To, add, a vent fan in an enclosed windowless room is a good idea for ventilation.

My suggestion for your vent would be to have the builder complete the install (as if the dryer is going to be vented)and cap it from the interior. Or do as I did with mine and stuff the end with some extra insulation.

Todd: next time you wash something you wouldn't mind ruining (old sweaters, some gift you don't like etc), try it. Things that have the woolmark should be safe to machine wash and dry provided you follow the instructions on both the care label and the washer and dryer.

Some dryers require you to preheat 2-3 large towels and then put the wool articles in and select the appropriate cycle, some dryers need just the articles to be dried.

The key is that wool does not do well (for example, it can felt) if it's agitated/tumbled for too long, so, for example, in some cases a low temperature can be worse than a medium temperature. Some dryers leave some moisture (less than damp, but still not completely dry) to avoid problems.

Anyway, we've had good luck with our Bosch condenser and wool articles, but then again, they were not expensive stuff, so we risked it.

Good luck!

Yadax3 said: "I current own a 17-year-old AEG washer/vented dryer set and both machines still work great.", "Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread - it has been an education for me. Now that I've decided to go with a Miele condenser dryer, I'm wondering if I need to install a vent in my windowless laundry room to help dissipate the heat from the dryer and, if so, the type and location of the vent.", and "My builder already ran the vent under and out the side of the house but hasn't installed siding on the exterior or anything on the interior yet. Are you suggesting he complete the interior/exterior installation and then cap it at both ends? Or just leave it "as is" to hook up later if needed?"

Well, let's just say we all, or maybe more appropriately, most of us learned a lot in this thread. ;-)

Since you already have an Euro washer and dryer, you won't notice much difference going to a condenser dryer.

My recommendation, if it's not too late, is that you finish the installation of the dryer vent. If you don't need it, cap it from the inside, but have the entire installation complete including the proper vent hood with a damper outside the home siding.

I will also suggest another "crazy" idea but if you can pull it off, it will be much better: bring your current AEG set and install it along with the new Miele set. I would stack one or both sets if necessary, although it seems like you might be able to have the four appliances side-by-side with a countertop on top, depending on what else you have in there. Giving up 24" of linear floor space to be able to do two loads of laundry at once is a reasonable alternative in my book.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Nearly spaced out on useful info again, sorry.

Your Miele will probably give you the option of either collecting the condensed water in a reservoir that you empty regularly (after a cycle or two), or instead, pump the water down the drain.

Since you have a builder on hand, try to have the machine pump the water down the drain. It's not just because it's "easier" or "one less thing to do/worry about".

One of the things people often ignore is that water holds an awful lot of heat. The dryer operates a little above 140F/60C, if I remember right (heat pump dryers operate at lower temps in general), and the heat of *condensing* the water from vapor into liquid ends up in your room from the air passing thru the heat exchanger, but the condensed water will still be at about 140F/60C and if you dump it into the sewage it will not end up in the room.

So, instead of a 3,000 W heater in the laundry room, you will end up with probably half or less than that. Right now my machine is in a large basement, so I do not notice much if any increase in temperature, but when it was in an apartment hallway it wasn't bad either (I'm mostly talking about Spring/Fall, when we were not running the heat or A/C), it was a bit warmer but not anything to complain about or tell people to avoid buying it.

Good luck!

I'm far from an expert, but I rented a house in England 2 years ago and wasn't impressed with the condensing dryer it had. The clothes took forever to dry and they came out overheated, stiff and with a bit of a burnt smell. This was on the lowest heat setting by the way.

If you're building a new house, I don't see why you wouldn't put a dryer vent in. Then you'll have the option to have either type of dryer.